GRAW2 (SP Demo)

[capcom_suicide]

Have now completed this.

For me they have done a few very important things:

1.) Visuals. This game looks jaw droppingly good, the explosions and sun effects are awesome, and the models are so damn crisp. Totally amazing view distance and a real feeling of being out in a battle.

2.) Cross com. They have opened up the tactics by letting you take control of the selected vehicle/AI. The way you use the cross com will dicate the success of the game it seems. It could be that you do a little less shooting, and more commanding, which is great IMHO.

3.) Controls. Somewhat tweaked, but not easy for a GRAW virgin, or someone used to Vegas, as per the first one, once it clicks you are DEADLY, so it just takes a bit of getting used to. Shooting from cover is not as good as vegas, but better than GRAW.

Great little demo, and the bit with the motars was absolutly tremendous.

Could be a real gem of a game based on this short demo. Did I say how good this looks? Smoke, sunbeams, dust, and a real "Sharpness" to the models. wow!

[spagmasterswift]

But the big question - have you killed yourself with a nade yet?

[vanpeebles]

whats the guns like skipper? do they shoot real pretty?

[tbm]

wow... as much as i adore GRAW, i was a bit worried they`d overburden the sequel with too many toys, and mess with what made it such a fantastic next gen (at the time) experience.

but they`ve done us proud. you like GRAW ? oh man, you`re gonna be in heaven with this. the new stuff, like the real time view from the drone is inspired. actually physically targeting enemy troops, scouting the area, bringing it right into proper 3D space just blows you away first time you get your hands on it. it also helps you place your squad exactly where you want them too. the squad AI feels tighter as well, and none of the stuck behind scenery that could happen at times in the first game. so far so good.

the new weapons are something else as well. the R X 4 & the New Sniper Rifle feel perfectly tuned & even more powerful than before. i was grinning like a cheshire alternating between my choices as i picked enemies with a single head shot. scalpel precision FTW !

the graphics are out of the world. who knew that a desert plateau would be so engaging ? from weather effects, to the way dust kicks up as a helo lands.

i`m frothing for sure, but so far its answered all my fears about the sequel. now, if they can get the net code just right, i doubt i`ll be seeing much of the outside world...

[Paulos G]

I enjoyed my play through of this demo - I just wish it was a bit longer.

I like the way the controls have been tweaked for changing rate of fire and current weapon.

Being able to get a full field of vision using the cross com is superb, especially as you can switch between team mates to get different perspectives.

It's the GRAW you know and love after having had a bit of a nip and tuck.

[Pookmunki]

This has seemed to fix the main problem i had with GRAW. I always thought the cross-com was too gimmicky, without real use and the levels where it glitched out just made it hard to see anything. This time around, with the manual control of the uav, squad etc in full screen, its actually got a purpose other than looking at your teammates faces every so often.

In all, a good demo, and it looks beautiful.

bit cheeky at full price though, especially with the same front-end as GRAW

[chopemon]

can't say anymore than has already been said really

looks stunning, plays just as well as GRAW and the UAV view is super nice

chalk another one up to ubi

[capcom_suicide]

In all, a good demo, and it looks beautiful.

bit cheeky at full price though, especially with the same front-end as GRAW


Yeah, same music, same front end...

It feels like GRAW "Directors Cut" and it looks like it will be a real "GRAW fan's" second coming.

Horray!

VP, couldn't find the M60 on the demo. Did you? :ph34r:

[MattyD]

Man, that's one short demo!

Obviously the demo only lets you sample the finished game but it seems to be practically identical to the first. There are some minor changes to the HUD such as icons to show you which units are next in rotation on your Cross-Com (should be useful) and the weapons and fire mode selectors have been improved with direction-based selection instead of cumbersome rotating lists.

The most welcome addition for me personally is being able to control the drone directly with a full-screen view through its camera. The picture-in-picture screen in the original wasn't helpful when it came to seeing exactly where an enemy was when behind cover for instance. The new Mule unit is pretty pointless though IMHO - it's basically just a resupply on wheels. I know they're touting it off as a mobile peice of cover but trying to actually use it like that is practically impossible and more hassle than it's worth. I gave it a quick try-out but every time I pressed 'up' to order it into a new position, the reticule caught the back end of the vehicle and sent the damn thing driving around in circles >_<

Graphically I didn't see much concrete difference, although that could be because I'm playing it on a standard, non-HD telly.The colour scheme is more grey than orange and there's a bit more vaseline in the distance etc but the demo is so short there was naturally very little new to look at.

I suppose it's a testament to the quality of the original that I'm now thinking of buying this one when it comes out even though it seems like it's basically going to be a mission disc right now.

[vanpeebles]

VP, couldn't find the M60 on the demo. Did you? :ph34r:

:( :( sniff

[tbm]

:( :( sniff

:lol: i`m more than sure the full game will have it ;)

[chopemon]

it may be that the front end isn't finished yet. they may be using the old one as a temporary front end before putting a new one in

[Ajay1986]

Ghost Recon has never been may type of game and this is more of the same. It is really nice but just not into the slow methodical gameplay. Oh and how bloody nice do the bullet trails look, really is a stunning game visually just a shame im not into that kind of game.

[NekoFever]

I'm well excited for this now. Generally it's more of the same, but it looks beautiful and the way that the Cross-com functions now (full control over the drone, full-screen feeds from your team, etc) is a huge improvement over that pokey little window that it gave you to work with in the first one.

It also impressed me by how it looks better than before with even more on screen. The mortar sequence looked great, and then when that helicopter appears and more enemies arrive it all goes a bit mental. Great stuff.

[Mr Pump]

ditto, i would of thourght they would of made more of a fuss of this demo given that graw 1 was quite a big game for the 360. Oh well, more free demo goodness.

I remember the will they won't they wait for the first one. Nice little supprise to come home to. Although I promised the other half I wouldn't play today as I spent most of last night shouting rude words at the last boss in GoW.

[NekoFever]

I wish they'd do more of them without telling anyone that it's coming. It avoids the problems with when they announce a date and then don't meet it, and it was a nice surprise when I checked my friends list and saw my mate was playing GRAW2. I did a double take at that and then couldn't get onto the Marketplace fast enough.

[capcom_suicide]

I've never played any GR game in my entire life. The demo is now downmoroading. If it's guff I'll hunt you all down.


I think GRAW was a watered down game that was rushed. I loved it, and so wanted others too! In my eyes it was a 9.9/10 game, but with time and reflection I came to understand why Spatial gave the game 8/10. It had some fairly silly design flaws and could have been a whole lot better.

GRAW2 looks to be even harder for a newbie to get into, but will be a perfect game for GRAW (and xbox1 players) veterens who felt the first game was lacking something.

But make no mistake this is a very "Special" type of game, and in no way will be universally enjoyed. Bottom line, you need to be patient, tactical and prepared to spend 80% of the time planning and scouting and 20% fighting. The first game had difficulty spikes, but players who took things really steady had less issues, but we were all ****ed up by the poor intel and lack of control of the AI.

GRAW2 looks to be a mission pack, and refined game for the fans.

People who didn't enjoy GRAW at a fundemental level, should not expect GRAW2 to be a ray of light. Its pure and simple more of the same with tweaks, and that in itself has had my phone SMS'd a few times and my xbox inbox swamped. So for a small band of NTSC-uk'ers there is a growing rumble of excitment, but don't let the hype make you think it will be a game that will automatically grab you by the balls. There is every chance you'll hate it.

Not liking a game due to genre is fine. What GRAW2 needs to do, is to appease people that "wanted to love" the first game, but felt let down due to poor design and rushed testing.

So far, I am hopefull, but the game offers such a great experience for me personally, that you have to take what I say with a pinch of salt. I just love blowing shit up. (And the inevtiable TK's that ensue....:ph34r: )

[tbm]

summed it up perfectly capcom. if you`re a skeptic when it comes to these types of games (as i was once apon a time...), its well worth giving the demo a try. i`m really glad i took a blind punt on GRAW at the time, as otherwise i`d have missed out on something very special indeed. the amount of hours ploughed into it does`nt bear thinking about.

i`m excited to see what else the full release offers after this taster.

[Jebus]

Graphically updated a bit yeah, seems okay more of the same and I'll buy it if it's region free.

It hinges on the multiplayer, I knew the main game would be as good as GRAW but I need to sample the multiplayer to be sure of a purchase.

Purely because the multiplayer of GRAW had no cover and was so different to the main game.

[Uli]

the best about this demo is it's ending screen, which says there will be a 50% bigger co-op campaign this time. nice! :)

otherwise i didn't see any AI improvement at all - at least not with the enemy. but i guess the demo is just too short to get a more comprehensive insight in the game's non-visual "gameplay improvements" (if there are any at all).

however, i have the game already on preorder, so i can only salute Ubisoft for selling me this more or less lazy mission pack at full price :dry:

[EvilBoris]

Why do people keep saying it is a mission pack?

Halo 2 wasn't a mission pack for Halo 1
San Andreas wasn't a mission pack for Vice city
Call of Duty 3 wasn't a mission pack for Call of Duty 2

So why is GRAW 2 to be considered a mission pack?

[Kotatsu Neko]

Finished it and well, it's more GRAW. Definitely more data disc than new game, and visually looking pretty dated I thought. Pretty nasty textures on the scenery and the frame rate was all over the place, tearing galore. Too bad Ubi Paris still haven't learnt how to model environment stuff in zbrush, it desperately needs it.

The new cross com stuff seems nice though, and I don't doubt it will be a solid and enjoyable game, so I'll be buying.

[MattyD]

It hinges on the multiplayer, I knew the main game would be as good as GRAW but I need to sample the multiplayer to be sure of a purchase.

I'm pretty much the same. I might get it if I can find it reasonably priced on import and the multiplayer has more in common with the solo mode. Any military game that doesn't have some sort of cover system (like GRAW's multiplayer) is likely to start feeling very dated, very quickly.

however, i have the game already on preorder, so i can only salute Ubisoft for selling me this more or less lazy mission pack at full price

Agreed - R6 Black Arrow came out at a budget price so why not this?

[EvilBoris]

I think the decision to make this a full game comes down to the way the series has gone.

It used to be mission after mission with a bit of text inbetween, you could get away with releasing a mission pack then.

Ghost Recon has come along quite a way since then and probably needs a fair bit more work than a new map with enemy placed in it.

[Uli]

Why do people keep saying it is a mission pack?

Halo 2 wasn't a mission pack for Halo 1
San Andreas wasn't a mission pack for Vice city
Call of Duty 3 wasn't a mission pack for Call of Duty 2

So why is GRAW 2 to be considered a mission pack?


same gameplay, means no major improvements over the predecessor, same engine, means no major improvements visually, same more or less instantly forgettable clancy-like storysetting, but more maps - missions if you like.

[EvilBoris]

same gameplay

Well I'd of been suprised if the gameplay had of suddenly started of revolving around rolling up balls of objects to fire into the sun to make into stars.
Seriously though, you play an army sqaud what else are you going to do? Were you expecting Pimp My Tank?

Same engine: See examples above.

same more or less instantly forgettable clancy-like storysetting.
The clue is in the name of the game...
Bill Bryson's Ghost Recon anyone?

more maps - missions if you like
I'm real glad that Ubisoft felt the need to include new mission in the sequal, it wouldn't of been much fun shooting tangos on my dashboard or in a neverending white void.

[Spatial101]

tearing galore.

Zero tearing for me.

The demo's far too short for me to make a proper judgement on it - but put it this way, I've put in a preorder and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it.

[PeteJ]

Crickey Boris, the sarcasm meter has just exploded from that one post!

But anyway, I'm happy with more of Graw, because it remains one of the best 360 titles...and is still the best Clancy game on the format too. They got it right first time in my opinion, so I'm glad a sequel is coming out so soon.

[chopemon]

good man boris, i'm sick of people bitching about it

it is a full fledged sequel, just because it uses the same engine, doesn't make it any less of a sequel

will gears of war 2 be decribed as a mission pack? no

for me it ticks all of the boxes for a sequel, it has better graphics and improved gameplay

[Jebus]

I wonder if people feel it's more of a map pack because it looks so similar in every department. The demo level is a deserty style one, and there was a lot of that kind of grey/yellow colour in the first game, the multiplayer maps had desert style to them as well.

I dunno, it felt okay to me but very rigid due to me playing so much gears.

[Eight Rooks]

Appallingly short after the generous Crackdown demo; yes, I know it's not a sandbox game, but still - "To Be Continued" right in the middle of a god damned fight only five minutes after the start is taking the piss somewhat, IMO. And while I wouldn't go as far as Kotatsu I do think it's technically somewhat... underwhelming. Like the shimmer on the rotor blades, where I feel I can make out the exact area where they've applied some really simple ripple effects, that sort of thing. Enemies also still do sweet FA, it seems - and since in Gears and Vegas they were circling and rushing me from the word go I think I'm justified in pointing that out as a flaw.

On the other hand, hey - more GRAW. The first game was glitched, flawed, too easy and rushed out of the door, but hey, it looked and sounded great and was fun to play. The demo seems to be more of the same at the very least - the first was no classic, and I don't know if I'd pay full price for a "mission pack", but I'll certainly pick #2 up if I get the opportunity.

[anephric]

I was happy when the first helo that appeared in the game didn't turn itself inside out in some miserable polygonal explosion.

Seems quite a bit nippier than the first game - feels like you're running faster, doing stuff faster, not trudging through porridge like the first.

[spagmasterswift]

I broke the helicopter >_<

[Kotatsu Neko]

I wonder if people feel it's more of a map pack because it looks so similar in every department. The demo level is a deserty style one, and there was a lot of that kind of grey/yellow colour in the first game, the multiplayer maps had desert style to them as well.

I dunno, it felt okay to me but very rigid due to me playing so much gears.

Looks like the same texture set by and large, and it wasn't very good in the first place. Far too bitty and scruffy looking, no polish to it. Quite low resolution too. Look at the buildings and wall sections, they're really crudely done - compare them to the ultra high res, zbrush sculpted walls in Gears of War...!

It's a mixture of lazy/rushed/poor art and a no doubt punishing development schedule. Funny thing is, usual Ubi practice is to alternate the sequels between teams, one in Montreal and one done elsewhere, so each year's game will actually have had 2 years of development on it. Not so with this one, it's from the same team as GRAW 1.

I guess another curio related to the rushed development is how it's still using it's own unique engine, and hasn't moved to Unreal 3 like pretty much every other in-house Ubi game. No doubt contributes to the dated looking visuals.

[anephric]

I imagine they were deep in dev on this before Ubi rolled out UE3 and it was too much work to change engines.

[EvilBoris]

I wonder if they still will be using a seperate uglier engine for multiplayer.

[anephric]

I thought GRAW used the same (Yeti) engine for MP, just sans HDR?

[EvilBoris]

I thought GRAW used the same (Yeti) engine for MP, just sans HDR?

It may well of, but everything from the textures to the models looked like they were outta a PS2 game.

Or Maybe the singleplayer actually looks like that when you turn off all the swanky effects.

[chopemon]

graw used an updated summit strike engine for the multiplayer, hence red storm developing it

[Kotatsu Neko]

graw used an updated summit strike engine for the multiplayer, hence red storm developing it

That thing is an old hold over from the Xbox 1 days isn't it? Or maybe an ancient PC engine.

Super dated though, even more than the SP engine.

[anephric]

Aha. I didn't think it looked that bad in MP (not like Splinter Cell: DA multiplayer bad), just less shiny and bloomy.

[Eight Rooks]

Thing is it's not the visuals that'd keep me from going back to GRAW singleplayer, it's the woeful AI. The first game was definitely not without its flaws even at the time, but despite the invisible walls (or mission boundaries or whatever you want to call them) the scale of it was just incredible. I could quite easily see the seams on the city flybys (identical textures everywhere, simple reflections, trees like cardboard cutouts) and I didn't care, it was just so, so good to get any kind of sense that this was a real metropolis, an open environment (if not a genuine one, obviously), that whole jazzed-up US news footage cinematic feel to the whole thing. Nothing on the previous generation had managed it to such an extent and I'd argue Gears still doesn't, fancy texturing, roadie run, chopper cutscenes or not. If the second game pulls this off too I'll take a dated engine and low polygon counts, thanks.

[Pookmunki]

I agree with the mission boundaries point, i didn't mind them being there as missions would have gotten very loose without them, the cities did look fantastic.

[capcom_suicide]

I agree with the mission boundaries point, i didn't mind them being there as missions would have gotten very loose without them, the cities did look fantastic.


Theres a 720p music video up for GRAW2 now. Looks like large cityscapes will continue to be a theme.

The explosions are so good it's worth repeating myself.... wowowowo!

[Kotatsu Neko]

Thing is it's not the visuals that'd keep me from going back to GRAW singleplayer, it's the woeful AI. The first game was definitely not without its flaws even at the time, but despite the invisible walls (or mission boundaries or whatever you want to call them) the scale of it was just incredible. I could quite easily see the seams on the city flybys (identical textures everywhere, simple reflections, trees like cardboard cutouts) and I didn't care, it was just so, so good to get any kind of sense that this was a real metropolis, an open environment (if not a genuine one, obviously), that whole jazzed-up US news footage cinematic feel to the whole thing. Nothing on the previous generation had managed it to such an extent and I'd argue Gears still doesn't, fancy texturing, roadie run, chopper cutscenes or not. If the second game pulls this off too I'll take a dated engine and low polygon counts, thanks.

Most game engines could do that, it was just flying over a special super low detail level filled with boxes for buildings. Remember it cuts away before you actually drop down and land, at which point it switches to the regular level detail linear map.

[Pookmunki]

Theres a 720p music video up for GRAW2 now. Looks like large cityscapes will continue to be a theme.

The explosions are so good it's worth repeating myself.... wowowowo!

Good point, these are easily the best explosion effects iv'e ever seen :happy:

[EvilBoris]

Aha. I didn't think it looked that bad in MP (not like Splinter Cell: DA multiplayer bad), just less shiny and bloomy.

Weird, I always thought SC:DS looked alright in multiplayer.

[Eight Rooks]

Most game engines could do that, it was just flying over a special super low detail level filled with boxes for buildings. Remember it cuts away before you actually drop down and land, at which point it switches to the regular level detail linear map.

Yes... I know most engines could do that. I wasn't holding it up as an example of technical proficiency. Few developers do, is what I'm saying. I don't remember any sequence in Gears of War which conveyed quite the same feeling - not to say the game didn't have numerous high points, obviously, just there are things GRAW does visually which Gears doesn't.

[SUMIRE]

Loved this from playing the Demo, but I loved the first one as well. Graphics look as awesome as ever, sound is top notch..the guns and explosions are amazing. Only gripe is the reloading he he

Will be buying this when it comes out.

[spagmasterswift]

After I broke the helicopter (kept stopping it from landing by standing underneath it until it just froze head height off the ground) it wouldn't let me progress so went to town moving the Mule into a nice position then letting rip with all my nades and smoke grenades - really shows off the new effects they've added. Great fun!

[Yoshimax]

Aha. I didn't think it looked that bad in MP (not like Rainbow6:Turdass multiplayer bad), just less shiny and bloomy.

Fixed for you - thank me later ;)

[Yoshimax]

Yep it's a nice step forwards but to me it's a "Black Arrow" and should be released with a price tag to much.

Also, from the post-demo blurb it looks like co-op campaign will continue to be detached from the SP experience (it states "50% extra co-op campaign") - That's a real crippler for me but I'll be jumping on the bandwagon with everyone else come March ;)

[Mr Pump]

Most game engines could do that, it was just flying over a special super low detail level filled with boxes for buildings. Remember it cuts away before you actually drop down and land, at which point it switches to the regular level detail linear map.


Doesn't it actually pause for quite a while it loads the regular level as well. I was actually impressed by the first level of RB6:V where it flies you over a town and the drops you straight into the action. I was pretty surprised.

Going back to GRAW2, I'm just not getting into this one. The looks haven't wowed me in the same way GRAW did when it first came out and all the little annoyances are still there such as the shoddy reload animation. Also I find the cover system feels really clunky after gears and RB6, I never feel sure if I'm going to stick to anything or not.


Aha. I didn't think it looked that bad in MP (not like Rainbow6:Turdass multiplayer bad), just less shiny and bloomy.

Fixed for you - thank me later ;)

Your wrong, I like it.

[Brats]

I like it. Even though I liked the first game (on hard - normal was too easy) I wasn't that fussed about GRAW2 but this has got me in the mood. Like Summit Strike and Island Thunder, there are small improvements that add up to a much better game, although it's hard to nail exactly how why.

And I thought the game looked lovely. I glad I'm not someone who dissects every graphical nuance like reading from a text book. It's like my mate who slags off bands where the singers don't technically breathe properly (like The Arcade Fire) but the sheer meotion of the 'imperfect' vocals seems to pass him completely by.

Yep it's a nice step forwards but to me it's a "Black Arrow" and should be released with a price tag to much.

I thought that at first, but reading the blurb this seems to be a much bigger game than the first GRAW. The previous Tom Clancy 'updates' were budget price, but they were also much smaller (aside from Island Thunder with its ton of free downloadable maps).

[Yoshimax]

Your wrong, I like it.

Yeah but I wasn't quoting you so what's it got to do with you ? ;)

[Eight Rooks]

Doesn't it actually pause for quite a while it loads the regular level as well. I was actually impressed by the first level of RB6:V where it flies you over a town and the drops you straight into the action. I was pretty surprised.

Yes, I'll give you that about the original - it was particularly irritating given most reviews talked about the game being totally seamless, with no loading pauses whatsoever, when it could be demonstrated this wasn't true.

[MJ]

I moved the contents of my post into the Headlines thread, as it was more appropriately placed there:

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?p=1023005

[Extra Terrestrial]

Is it me or are we looking at the best graphics on the Xbox 360 so far and yes, that includes the likes of Gears of War, Oblivion and Viva Pinata (despite being different games/genres)?

The demo maybe short but my goodness, it is ever so sweet.

[Uli]

played through it a second time with focus on the so called "improved AI" - which is unfourtunately not in place, at least not in this demo. enemies run to next cover, hide behind cover, occasionally pop-up from cover and eventually get shot. really bland.

[Kotatsu Neko]

Is it me or are we looking at the best graphics on the Xbox 360 so far and yes, that includes the likes of Gears of War, Oblivion and Viva Pinata (despite being different games/genres)?

The demo maybe short but my goodness, it is ever so sweet.

It really is just you.

I can't fathom how you could possibly think a thrown together effort like this can possibly beat Gears of War's incredible visuals...!

[Extra Terrestrial]

I can't fathom how you could possibly think a thrown together effort like this can possibly beat Gears of War's incredible visuals...!

I think the original GRAW had certain graphic effects going on that blew me away then what Gears of War provided. Just flying around the city in the helicopter before landing to realise that what you saw in the air at the beginning is exactly what you are going through.

The explosions are certainly first rate as well as the addition of dust and particle effects (demo). While GRAW looks too clean and 'perfect' at times, the demo produces a variable showcase for the graphics.

I'm not saying that Gears of War doesn't look good - far from it - but what Ghost Recon shows us is a brilliant vision of tactical war in the barren streets/environments and I like it.

The demo puts Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell to shame already, in my opinion of course.

[capcom_suicide]

The demo puts Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell to shame already, in my opinion of course.

Don't be afraid to share the GRAW love buddy. You are not alone. :ph34r:

[EvilBoris]

I personally thought that graphically the demo was a bit of a mixed bag.
We'll have to wait to see what the full game is like though.

[Uli]

GRAW2 looks good but is far from being visually accomplished. still some poor animations, such as reloading, and a first person view without the weapon model and related animations don't make a showcase at all.

[Eight Rooks]

Just flying around the city in the helicopter before landing to realise that what you saw in the air at the beginning is exactly what you are going through.

But as Kotatsu already pointed out, it isn't what you end up going through. ;)

[Bleeders]

More of the same? Yes please. Finally got round to playing this last-night and really, really enjoyed it. I like some of the refinements that have been implemented and glad Ubisoft haven't tried to reinvent the wheel with GR2.

[Simmy]

Found the demo a little flat tbh. I love GRAW, and would rate it as one of the best 360 experiences I've had so far, but this just seemed like a pretty dull part of a level. The cities were where it was at with GRAW IMO, I'm just hoping that the full game takes place in more interesting locations than the demo.

The game looks good in so far as you can tell from such a plain looking level. The originals cities still stun me when I see them, and the demo certainly did not look as good as some of those to me !

[vanpeebles]

To be fair Simmy I felt the same, the pacing was awful, dog slow!

[Rossco]

Eventually got round to playing the demo, it was pretty good. Makes me wanna play the original again actually. Not sure if I'd pay full price for this though. Need to wait and see if it offer alot more than the last one.

[Team Andromeda]

I think the original GRAW had certain graphic effects going on that blew me away then what Gears of War provided. Just flying around the city in the helicopter before landing to realise that what you saw in the air at the beginning is exactly what you are going through.

The explosions are certainly first rate as well as the addition of dust and particle effects (demo). While GRAW looks too clean and 'perfect' at times, the demo produces a variable showcase for the graphics.

I'm not saying that Gears of War doesn't look good - far from it - but what Ghost Recon shows us is a brilliant vision of tactical war in the barren streets/environments and I like it.

The demo puts Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell to shame already, in my opinion of course.


Oh join the Club , GOW never impressed me as much as GRAW or Lost Planet for that matter (To me that eats GOW for Breakfast ) . GRAW blew me away last year, and to me untill Lost Planet was the best use of the 360 in terms of GFX I've seen. Nothing in GOW matched the helicopter ride , and the feeling one gets from shooting the Vehicles and watching them explode and blow in to pieces with bits of debris , thats one of my all time stand out gaming moments right up there with the 1st time you see VF II onthe Saturn , the Top down sections on Contra III, or Ep 5 in Orta (I'm talking Jaw hit the foor moments ). The sinlge player game was much more Involving and far more interesting than GOW. GRAW II just looks more of the same , just with even more to do and more polish and GFX . I’m in 7th Heaven to say the truth and the game can't come soon enough
Though I’m not so sure about the demo blowing away RB6 Vegas though ;)

[Orgun]

Played the demo, meh its aight. Controls felt kinda unresponsive, especially firing. Hope that changes before launch.

Other than the excellent explosions it just sort of felt ..."meh" :)

[MACO]

Demo was ok, in a kind of GRAw 1.5 way. I have a problem with a 'disconnect' with this game and the previous one, the 3rd person view has a strange floaty feel and not the heavy, weighty feel of Gears for example. Your avatar feel like some strange gun extension ,moving about onscreen and a heavily armoured soldier.

[Shozuki]

I ditto the meh comments - its really nothing special to me...

[Uli]

I have a problem with a 'disconnect' with this game and the previous one, the 3rd person view has a strange floaty feel and not the heavy, weighty feel of Gears for example. Your avatar feel like some strange gun extension ,moving about onscreen and a heavily armoured soldier.

this is because GRAW is still at heart a first person-shooter. so play it in the first person view and it gets much better.

[Kotatsu Neko]

this is because GRAW is still at heart a first person-shooter. so play it in the first person view and it gets much better.

There's no gun model in 1st person though is there? It's rather odd looking, and certainly an afterthought.

[anephric]

Yeah, it's horrible in first-person. It feels floaty and weird.

[MJ]

Yeah, it's horrible in first-person. It feels floaty and weird.
That's why I hate playing GRAW co-op/multiplayer in split-screen because the only option is first person and it feels like it moves too quick and smooth. It's a shame because split-screen is the way to go when my best friend comes over.

Gears can handle third person/over the shoulder view in split-screen so why can't GRAW?! I hope they've fixed this in GRAW 2.