Doom - XBLA

[Ouenben]

Just got this, can't play online due to only having silver account :(

The single player so far seems good enough, the music is pretty good (catchy) but very bad quality, simple look left and right and move controls, can't look up or down like the original.
L for sprint and R for fire (obviously)

Will post more impressions in a minute

Just finished the first level and got an achievement.

Something tells me this is mainly a Multiplayer affair as the single player doesn't interest me much

[EvilBoris]

You musta been playing a different original to everyone else :p

[Paulos G]

Heh. On my friend's list I've got Chopemon showing as:

Playing DOOM - cowering in the menus!

Love it.

[Ouenben]

You musta been playing a different original to everyone else :p
I could of sworn you couldnt look up and down like in other fps in the original doom?

[AllYourBase]

It hasn't aged well that's for sure. It gave me a headache within about 2 minutes!! C'mon Microsoft give me Lumines!!!!

[dvdmike]

the music is pretty good,WHAT !!!!!!!! the midi soundtrack sounds like its been filtered thro a farmers arse they ruined it
as for the game perfect so far all the bits are there and the frame rate is solid

[cavalcade]

Can you confirm - online Death Matches and Co-op?

What are the achievements like?

[PeteJ]

I could of sworn you couldnt look up and down like in other fps in the original doom?No you couldn't in Doom1 or 2. No idea what Doris is on about :p

Achievements are standard things, all look pretty easy. Kills in multiplay, finishing a chapter, skill levels...find a secret room...finish a level on nightmare.

Easy peasy :)

[Ouenben]

WHAT !!!!!!!! the midi soundtrack sounds like its been filtered thro a farmers arse they ruined it
as for the game perfect so far all the bits are there and the frame rate is solid
I wasn't expecting much better considering the games age tbh. I know they could have improoved it but I'm not bothered. It's what Custom soundtracks is For!!

[EvilBoris]

No idea what Doris is on about :p

Read his first post you!

[Gradius]

had a quick deathmatch on this, twas laggy as hell. It was like playing Ridge multiplayer with media connect on.

It does seem kind of weird not being able to look and down.

Classic action tho and 5.1 sound is brill.

[dvdmike]

I wasn't expecting much better considering the games age tbh. I know they could have improoved it but I'm not bothered. It's what Custom soundtracks is For!!It didn't need improving the midi on the real game is stunning they just buggered it (I still play doom on pc most weeks)

[ItsThere]

I had a couple of deathmatches and they were the BEST Live Arcade connection I have had on any game. I don't care if its aged, its still cool.

[atrus]

Yeah just got this, and this is a retro game that I can relate to! (the rest have been way before my time). In multiplayer, there doesn't seem to be a way of seeing the scoreboard, and the match seems to just continue until people get bored (unless the default frag limit is set very high!)

Will probably finish the single player at some point too. Great fun.

[Silvergun X]

Just played through the whole of Doom's original 3 episodes online in co-operative play with El Leone and PerfectSmith. Quality stuff, guys. ^^

We *HAD* to re-play the last level though, as I missed the whole rabbit-head-on-the-spike thing. http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/images/smilie/ph34r.gif

[Myth]

:( If I had known you lot were doing that I'd bought it and joined in.

[Silvergun X]

Well, buy it and do a Nightmare completion run with us tomorrow. :)

((Forgot to mention, we did it on Ultra-Violence.))

[Riskbreaker]

Just played through the whole of Doom's original 3 episodes online in co-operative play with El Leone and PerfectSmith. Quality stuff, guys. ^^

We *HAD* to re-play the last level though, as I missed the whole rabbit-head-on-the-spike thing. http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/images/smilie/ph34r.gif

It was an excellent session, of the retro titles released so far Doom has been the most enjoyable.

We did get a couple of laggy moments but generally the 4 player co-op ran quite smoothly.

The rabbit-head-on-the-spike thing was worth seeing twice :lol:

[kendra]

I like it, it's an excellent game :)

Achievements are easy, although am I the only one who hates the Netcode? Keeps disconnecting me and I've got more than 50 frags... not the achievement though :/

[ItsThere]

Lets be honest, its pisses all over pac man and the like.

As long as the releases carry on getting better like this I am gonna be buying a lot of these titles!

[Shakey_Jake33]

I'm so chuffed with how well this plays on the 360 controller. No need for kb/m here.

[dlittley]

Yeh the controls are tight. It plays very well on the 360, absolutely love it. So I guess its a pretty safe bet we'll see Doom 2 at some point in the future then..... and who can rule out Quake/2/3?

:)

[Shakey_Jake33]

Does this contain the Ultimate Doom stuff? I can't tell, personally.

[Lebowski]

had a go on death match with 3 buddys great fun with the chain saw but i have to admit its pretty light weight next to modern fps cant wait to do a bit of the co-op and play through all the old levels though, the controlls are ace too not bad not bad at all, more a nostalga trip than anything else mind.

[dlittley]

I was really suprised how well it stands up today. Great fun.

[watusi]

if they released Q2 deathmatch I would probably die from excitement,

[Widegoat]

How many points is it (Doom)?

[dlittley]

How many points is it (Doom)?800

[Silvergun X]

Does this contain the Ultimate Doom stuff? I can't tell, personally.Yes.

Original Doom only had 3 episodes - This contains the 4th episode that came with Ultimate.

So what's tonight's plan? Leone? Riskbreaker?

4th Episode completion on Ultra-Violence, or 1-3 Episode completion on Nightmare?

Or both? :ph34r:

[Daragon]

if they released Q2 deathmatch I would probably die from excitement,

Wasn't quake 2 online included with the quake 2 bonus disk from quake 4?

[DavidHolliss]

Q2 was yes but sure it was offline only.

[Riskbreaker]

Yes.

Original Doom only had 3 episodes - This contains the 4th episode that came with Ultimate.

So what's tonight's plan? Leone? Riskbreaker?

4th Episode completion on Ultra-Violence, or 1-3 Episode completion on Nightmare?

Or both? :ph34r:

Bah, I'm not gonna be able to get online tonight :pft: I was looking forwards to a Nightmare run as well. Next time I'll be on live is Sunday night, better let someone take my place mate.

[dvdmike]

I only have the demo and get paid tomorrow so no ms points for me till tomorrow :(

[Silvergun X]

Bah, I'm not gonna be able to get online tonight :pft: I was looking forwards to a Nightmare run as well. Next time I'll be on live is Sunday night, better let someone take my place mate.Bah, bollocks to it. :(

I know MythJM wanted a place last night. You up for this mate?

Any response from Leone?

[stainboy]

I'm meant to have some points but the code Play emailed me was wrong :( Demo is great fun though, I'd much rather play this than modern fps's, reminds me of my first PC 8)

Can't find how to get in that door at the start though :dry:

[ChrisField]

Just got the demo and there's already an update! :) Nice enough game, but not worth my money unfortunately. New games! New games! Ra Ra Ra!

[Shakey_Jake33]

Just had a quick 2 player online co-op with an mate on this - top stuff.

As far as lag goes, bit wierd... started off extremely laggy.... as someone said, it was just like playing RR6 with Media Connect turned on.
Made sure Media Connect was disabled, all torrents were closed etc.
But after a few levels it totally cleared up - odd.
Voice chat was fine throughout.

I got this weekend off work, so I don't mind playing a few games with peeps :)

[dvdmike]

Im getting it tomorrow (put some points back at work) and have saturday off if anyone wants a go

Either deathmatch or nightmare co-op
its like having 4x486's with network cards allover again

[bangaio]

Read his first post you!

And you will se he says you can't look up / down like the original - I took it to mean you can't look up and down just like you couldn't do in the original - you I guess read it like you can't look up and down like you could do in the original.

God bless the internet!

[MartyG]

Plays as well as it always did, but I don't remember it being quite so easy - FPSs must have gotten harder over the years. Music is completely ruined though - how could they have made the midi emulation that bad?

[dvdmike]

Plays as well as it always did, but I don't remember it being quite so easy - FPSs must have gotten harder over the years. Music is completely ruined though - how could they have made the midi emulation that bad?I know whats up with the music ? good thing im converting the midi to mp3 and custom soundtracking it

[Diggler]

I must have had a shitty soundcard back in the day, 'cos this music sounds waaay better ;)

[erhgiez]

Plays as well as it always did, but I don't remember it being quite so easy - FPSs must have gotten harder over the years. Music is completely ruined though - how could they have made the midi emulation that bad?
You think its easy?? try the final chapter, its a damn sight harder than anything else. you get cyber demons (although figured out an easy way to kill him) on level 2, hell you start with just a pistol and are surrounded by 2 shotgun men, 8 imps and 4 cacodemons!!! I just scraped through the level, id hate to think on what it would be like on ultra violence or nightmare!

[MartyG]

Maybe it's just because I've played it so much before - I know where all the traps are.

Nightmare is difficult because the enemies respawn - it's still not impossible, you just need to spend more time moving, but the default setting is a walk in the park.

[Nijo]

Back in the day it was always played on Ultra Violence - or Nightmare on co-op as they didn't respawn.

Cyber Daemons are easy! That's what circle strafing was invented for!

[erhgiez]

Yeah just completed it now and it wasnt too bad, I remember it was much harder when I was a kid and played it just using the keyboard and not knowing how to strafe :ph34r:, still one of my favourite FPS and it shits in doom 3's mouth from a colossal height

[Super Monkey Balls]

Can you customize the controls when you unlock it?

[MartyG]

No - but you can bring up a nice little picture with what the buttons do :/

[dvdmike]

Just got it god this is a whole bunch of me @ 13 style fun :)

[Yoshimax]

Loving this - The gameplay just shines through.

[watusi]

I'm suprised how well this plays to be honest.. It's still really good fun. Retrotastic.

[Dezm0nd]

I told myself I wouldnt buy this, but I tried it out on "ultra violent" and it's superb fun. Really intense and still a tiny bit scary on this setting, lurking round the mazes with 5hp and a shotty and killing every mothereffer in the room is satisfying.

Bastards. thats another 800 points gone

[Yoshimax]

Don't forget you can save anytime in a level kiddies - I did and was for putting pad to wall on one of the levels :D

[dvdmike]

Don't forget you can save anytime in a level kiddies - I did and was for putting pad to wall on one of the levels :DSo did I lol

[dlittley]

Don't forget you can save anytime in a level kiddies - I did and was for putting pad to wall on one of the levels :DBut it restarts the level though when you load your save doesn't it?

[Yoshimax]

Nope - It starts right where you saved it ;)

That's what I was thinking too - Thought it was worth pointing out looks like I was right :D

[dvdmike]

But it restarts the level though when you load your save doesn't it?It did for me minus all my weapons :(

[kendra]

How does one get the 50 online kills ?

Every game I play, the other person quits and nothing gets tallied, or when I finish a game, it doesn't get added to my kill count?

I've been stuck on 43 kills for the past two days despite playing online for 2+ hours a day :/

[JohnMcL7]

I could of sworn you couldnt look up and down like in other fps in the original doom?

Sounds like you're thinking of Legacy Doom, a later released engine which allowed you to play through Doom with some OpenGL lighting effects and the ability to look up and down.

John

[Myth]

I never really played Doom much as a kid, remember it for the PS1 but that's about it.

Anyway I was playing it last night and finished Chapter 1 and was suprised that the low res pixelated graphics still managed to shake me up a bit.

I'm loving this at the moment though it holds up really well and can be a right laugh on live.

[Concept]

Final Doom on PSone was the series' atmospheric highlight. I wish they'd used the same music and lighting effects for the 360 port.

[k0pp0]

Amen to that. PSX doom was the bees knees.

[Yoshimax]

Developers take note - THIS is how level design should be done.

[Ouenben]

Sounds like you're thinking of Legacy Doom, a later released engine which allowed you to play through Doom with some OpenGL lighting effects and the ability to look up and down.

John
Ahh so I did word it wrong.
The point I was trying to get out was that I could have sworn you "Couldn't" look up or down (Like you can in todays fps' games) in the original doom.
Turns out I was right but it also turns out I worded it badly.

[Crisp_Rapper]

this game still makes me ****ing jump... :(

[dvdmike]

Yoshimax, sorry I missed your game was hoping I would get some co-op action going soon but got a real eary morning :(
And whats up with messages not showing up when ingame in Doom, A bug with the port ?

[SegaMark]

Grabbed this today. All I have to say, or type is...

<3

Played it on XBL and had a bloody great time. I grew up with DOOM on 486DX so I love this so much, look forward to playing you lot. :D

[Concept]

Although I personally prefer Final Doom (as above), I do have to say it's a great conversion of the PC. Considering that it's running on a panel well above the original resolution of the game, it looks nigh-on identical to how I remember it. I was expecting it'd be chunk/block text galore.

[Crisp_Rapper]

Considering that it's running on a panel well above the original resolution of the game, it looks nigh-on identical to how I remember it. I was expecting it'd be chunk/block text galore.

indeed, my screen is about 78" bigger than the original monitor it was played on yet it still looks lovely! :wub:

[NekoFever]

I bought this game the other day and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I've played this game countless times (never with online play though, which kind of sold me on it) but it still stands up well which is testament to the original quality. The dual stick controls are also excellent, even without the vertical look. It's never felt this good to play in the various keyboard/D-pad configurations that I've used over the years, and it's still really creepy.

Since I'm whoring over achievements I tried to get that one for finishing a level on the highest difficulty by playing the first level. My God! I got slaughtered in the first room! It's insane!

[Jebus]

Since I'm whoring over achievements I tried to get that one for finishing a level on the highest difficulty by playing the first level. My God! I got slaughtered in the first room! It's insane!

I did that achievement today.

I found the best way is to go left and kill the 4/5 people and open the first secret...go that way and just ****ing leg it to the last room, kill the imp and soldier then get into the final room, run to button ignoring the imp.

Took me about 4 goes to figure that out mind you.

Can you get the achievements with co-op play? I'd quite like to get the episode ones, but dunno if I can be arsed to go through them all on my lonesome.

Also, how long does it take to get 50 kills, not tried the online deathmatch yet.

[NekoFever]

That one shouldn't take long. I got something like 12 kills on my first game.

[weightgain]

That acheievement wa sobtained with some late night wine and some good skilled running through the 1st level lol.
Hard as nails.

[in5ane]

My only problem with nightmare is the enemies come back- I like to slowly go thru the level killing everything, and I just can't do that on nightmare :(

My tactic for getting thru the first level on nightmare was just peg it to the second room, kill all those guys, peg it to the secret bit on the right before the exit room, grab the health and armour, then peg it to the exit. I felt like such a cheat!!

[Nijo]

Yeah, that's how to do it - and after the courtyard secret bit when you open the door you should be able to blast the barrel with a snap shot to clear out the imp.

[NekoFever]

Yeah, the respawning has scuppered me a couple of times. I like to open the door, take a couple of pot shots at enemies, and then run back into the previous room and repeat ad infinitum. Can't do that here because some bugger will come up behind you and shotgun you in the back.

[Soi]

I did the first level on nightmare just by running past everyone. Nightmare mode is very hard!

[Garny]

How the hell do you do the second stage of the fourth chapter? Ive got about 40 shotgun rounds but about 100 enemies trying to take me down. I had this on the PC and PS1, but i cant remember it being this hard.

[El Leone]

I hate the fourth chapter. Played it with some friends and found it boring and unenjoyable.

[kendra]

How the hell do you do the second stage of the fourth chapter? Ive got about 40 shotgun rounds but about 100 enemies trying to take me down. I had this on the PC and PS1, but i cant remember it being this hard. Is that the one with acid all at the bottom and lots of radiation suits?

Took me ages to do that, quite often you have to let them kill each other, ignore the invun until the very end (when facing the Cyberdemon)

[Nijo]

Was the 4th chapter in the original? I don't seem to remember it... but I may just be going senile.
Chapter 1: Goatdemon
Chapter 2: Cyberdemon
Chapter 3: Braindemon

What am I missing?

[PeteJ]

Was the 4th chapter in the original? I don't seem to remember it... but I may just be going senile.
Chapter 1: Goatdemon
Chapter 2: Cyberdemon
Chapter 3: Braindemon

What am I missing?It's Ultimate Doom, which appeared a little bit later.

[maximum]

i'm having a great time plaing this over live (co-op mainly) but why on earth didn't they port the Playstation version instead?

anyone who's played the PSX version will know they made significant improvements to the the lighting, sound quality and most importantly the music..

the pc music sucks but the playstation tracks were some of the most terrifying compositions every to grace a videogame.....

also, the PSX version had rearranged levels and incorporated levels from ultimate doom and doom 2. no doubt microsoft will be flogging those as independent 800 point downloads :(

[Yoshimax]

I wouldn't have thought it'd be hard to understand why the PLAYSTATION version of a game hasn't made it to live arcade ?

I think they've done this perfectly - Love having the old music & sfx and the graphics still look amazing even on a 40" HD panel which I was very surprised by.

Also think sticking to the 4:3 aspect ratio was wise.

Controls - Ace
Game - Ace
Sound - Ace
Graphics - Ace

For me this has been one of the top3 live arcade releases to date - I just wish Doom2 was in there because I fear it'll pop up for another 800 points in about a month (which I will dutifully pay !)

[Garny]

I wouldn't have thought it'd be hard to understand why the PLAYSTATION version of a game hasn't made it to live arcade ?

I think they've done this perfectly - Love having the old music & sfx and the graphics still look amazing even on a 40" HD panel which I was very surprised by.

Also think sticking to the 4:3 aspect ratio was wise.

Controls - Ace
Game - Ace
Sound - Ace
Graphics - Ace

For me this has been one of the top3 live arcade releases to date - I just wish Doom2 was in there because I fear it'll pop up for another 800 points in about a month (which I will dutifully pay !)
Will we get Doom2 and Final Doom all in one? or will MS charge us 800 points for each of them?

[PeteJ]

I remember when Doom2 came out, Dooms Day posters everywhere and a hefty £50 price tag. Eek.

Not as good as the original though imo, but having said that I'd pay another 800 points in an instant :)

[nonny]

Whilst I am loving this, especially in co-op... its quake I really want.

That is pretty much the first FPS game to get me wholly addicted to multiplayer and even if it shipped with just the default maps I would pay 800-1200 points for it. On a side note I wonder if they would consider map packs as content for these games given that there is a wealth of it already out there?

[Morcerf]

I'm loving this too at the moment - getting the most attention on my 360 for sure.

Not really played it much online, but fancy doing some co-op if anyone is up for it?

[Brats]

Will we get Doom2 and Final Doom all in one? or will MS charge us 800 points for each of them?

They're both pretty big games. Doom 2 has 50 levels and Final Doom 64 (plus secret levels).

The Playstation version of Doom and Final Doom were amalgamations of Doom 1 & 2 and Final Doom & Thy Flesh Consumed from Masters of Doom respectively. However they did lose some levels and some of the levels were butchered slightly (lower ceilings and missing rooms mainly).

I also prefer Bobby Prince's original music, but that's probably just a nostalgia thing.

Doom 2 and Final Doom released as DLC for 400 points each would be :wub:.

[Kubrick]

For teh DOOM vets:

How do you access the 9th level in each episode?

[kendra]

All I remember is how to get to E3M9.

Basically on that level with loads of radiation suits (E3M6 I think) and lots of boxes, you have to use a rocket launcher to rocket yourself into the box that you cant get into ... have invunurability of course helps :)

[markgreyam]

For teh DOOM vets:

How do you access the 9th level in each episode?

In the first episode, there is a level that starts with you facing a door that, when opened, reveals a rectangular pit of acid with a path around it to either side.

Eventually the exit is at the top of a slowly rasing set of stairs.

The secret exit is obtained like this (this is off the top of my head so I hope this makes sense).

- when you leave the start area via the door to your left, you'll see a soulsphere. just so we are in the right place.
- when you flick the switch down where the imps are, it will open a door in between these two windows that will lead up to an area with the yellow key.
- once you clear this area, go back down to where the two windows are, then bolt back up and left and follow it around and you'll see that a part of the wall has lowered. wait a few moments before you do this, cause the door lowering is triggered half way down that corridoor and you need to give it time to close before you bolt back up and try to get there in time. if you don't have the awesome music playing you can actually hear the door drop and you can bolt back there while on the way down, but that for the l33t only (i.e. thats what I do ;))
- make it there in time and you'll be presented with a small room with some pillars, a few enemies and a RL.
- there is a small exit thru the lava that takes you to a small room with a backpack and a switch. this switch raises a platform in the area at the start that will allow access to the sercret level. You can actually get there and finish the level without getting any keys at all IIRC.

- also, when leaving this area via the way you came, there will be another dropped wall out and to the right that if you get there in time, will take you to the soulsphere. otherwise you can continue thru a short section of acid and come out where the switch is that allowed you to open up this area in the first place.

I haven't played the subsequent episodes in ages so I can't remember how to get to those secret levels, but it's one of those things that I just know the moment I start up the level. Buying Doom on Xbox360 was a huge mistake IMHO but I'm a Doom whore. It just made me re-install the Collectors Edition back on my PC and reinstall the Doomsday HQ OpenGL mod and play thru the game again.

[C']

I’ve played a few versions of Doom over the years, most notably Playstation and 32x (or Doom Through a Letterbox) versions but never played the ‘true’ version so have really taken to this.

It’s surprising how atmospheric the game is after all these years. Hearing the hiss of a Cacodemon or the roar of a Baron of Hell still gets me after all these years.

However, started Thy Flesh Consumed last night and even the first level in that chapter is insane. Thought it was bad enough that there were grunts and imps teleporting in seemingly all the time, but to be given a Baron of Hell to deal with armed with only a shotgun…

Still, I’ll fight on.

[sharky_ob]

Yeah, the 1st 2 levels are a nightmare, but it gets easier after that.

I found the best way to deal with the baron of hell was to lead him back into the room where you start, and then run back to the place where you have to jump over the lava to get into the room with all the windows down the sides. From here you can shoot him without him getting too close.

Does that even make sense?

[Brats]

The Barons of Hell are just meatbags that you can waste tons of ammo on. But they are also slow so most Doom Players tend to leave them. This is one of the few criticisms of Doom and it's why id brought in the less powerful Hell Knight's for Doom II.

The last chapter Thy Flesh Consumed is all about ammo conservation imo. It's amazing.

[C']

:blink:

The thought of leaving a Baron of Hell roaming about the level chasing after me fears me with dread.

[Brats]

You can often lose them though. If you get far enough away from an enemy, it won't chase you.

Or, you can use them as a weapon :). The Barons are great at missing their target and smahing one of their green fireballs into another enemy, particularly Cacodemons. Then just sit back and watch the fight ensue :).

[erhgiez]

Yeah, the 1st 2 levels are a nightmare, but it gets easier after that.

I found the best way to deal with the baron of hell was to lead him back into the room where you start, and then run back to the place where you have to jump over the lava to get into the room with all the windows down the sides. From here you can shoot him without him getting too close.

Does that even make sense?
Its not classed as a secret but on the first level theres a hidden room in the first bit of acid you get to its kinda on the right hand side beneath the final raised bit, if you drop into the acid and press against it, it should open, also note theres another hidden room in there on the right, these rooms have a rocket launcher in it which makes mr baron easier, but given the close proximety that he spawns to you it can be quite easy to blow yourself up....but that second level is very hard on UV its all about doing the first level and having nearly all your health and a lot of ammo which is hard!

[Ish]

I
It’s surprising how atmospheric the game is after all these years. Hearing the hiss of a Cacodemon or the roar of a Baron of Hell still gets me after all these years.
I downloaded this last night. You're right. Its still very atmospheric. Creeping around in the corridors with the lights blinking on and off still gets me on edge.

Its still playable as hell too. After playing games like Gears, CoD and the like its simplicty is very refreshing.

[Concept]

Where you been Ish? You've barely posted of late.

As for Doom... MS and iD really need to come to an agreement about the most atmospheric entry in the series, Final Doom. Thing is I'm not sure what third-party/publisher developed/holds the rights to it.

[Ish]

I've been in the photography thread but thats about it. Chaos at work for the last few months meant I've not really had time for gaming.

Project over now so am back into it with a vengeance :)

I love the music on the phobos lab level btw. Though I can't remember if they're just random or tied to levels. Anyway its the slow creepy one. Fantastic. Still sends a shiver down my spine.

[Nijo]

I've just been having some fun playing E1M1 on nightmare, although I had a look at the scores of the top guy and they're insane! Every bloody level!

Anybody still playing this? I've only tinkered with a couple of levels after the first so if there's a need for somebody who doesn't remember the maps for some co-op action, I'm ya man. :)

[weightgain]

Add me if ya want mate - still play now and then. also looking to get the deathmatch acheivements.

[Brats]

Ignore..

[Brats]

As for Doom... MS and iD really need to come to an agreement about the most atmospheric entry in the series, Final Doom. Thing is I'm not sure what third-party/publisher developed/holds the rights to it.

iD hold the rights for it. They were always very business savvy about holding onto their IP. They knew that if they wanted they could just release a game via shareware and still make millions that way.

As far as iD were concerned, they were doing publishers a favour by even speaking to them.

[Ish]

So is Doom2 coming? And when?